Where Did We Come From? by Don Munro
Foulis Castle
Records as far back as the 14th century show that our Clan Munro’s lands are located in Ross-shire, just a few miles north of Dingwall – but the question has always been, “where did we come from?” There are lots of theories and suggestions but where is the proof?
The most popular answer to this question can be found on the Clan Munro Scotland website where it states “The origins of Clan Munro are lost in the distant past. By tradition, 11th century mercenary soldiers from Ireland were granted lands in Ross by a grateful King after assisting him in defeating the Viking invaders of this part of Scotland.” This and much more can be found in the Clan Munro Scotland website www.clanmunro.org.uk/munros.htm
The Clan Donald history says that the Munros came from Ireland with them.
In recent times Charles C Munro III and Malcolm Hamilton have done a tremendous amount of research to show that the Munros did come from Ireland. You will find lots of information about the Munro name there as well and there are also a couple of photos of the River Roe in Northern Ireland. If you would like a copy of Charles & Malcolm’s paper just let me know.
I would really like to think that the Munros originated in Scotland but it is difficult to find anyone who suggests this but I did find one. The Earl of Cromartie in his book “A Highland History” goes back to Roman times and quotes from a map by Ptolemy saying that in the North of Scotland there were four Pictish tribes from whom our clans are descended. The tribe that lived in Ross and Moray was the Kanteai and the Earl tells us that it is from them that the Clan Munro is descended.
In my next post, I will have a look at DNA testing.
Robert Stevenson MUNRO is my Great Grand father who came to South Australia c1890’s. He had two brothers who went to New Zealand David Alexander Stevenson MUNROand Thomas Murray MUNRO. Their father David MUNRO/MONRO was the minister of Coldingham, Berwick (now Borders) Soctland for 47 Years. David was born in St. Andrews and St. Leonards to Alexander MONRO and wife Isabel WALKER. Alexander was a Merchant of some kind?
I have had my DND tested but rather than MUNRO/MONROs turning up I seem to get another name????
Hi Ron, I hope someone can help you. I know that an adoption or an illegitimacy can cause that. Have you been in touch with Colin Munro from Glasgow? He should be able to help you.
…but the Munros are not descended from the Picts. There was a lot of intermarrying when the Scots moved to Alba (Scotland). In the early days (before 1000) northern Ireland was referred to as Insula Scotorum.
Thanks Malcolm, Just put it in there as one of the theories about where we came from
Concerning DNA, when genetic testing became available in the Highlands, especially around Dingwall, there was alarm among many of the Scots when they discovered the extent to which their ancestors includes Vikings. It should not have surprised them as Thing Valla (Dingwall) was the center of Viking activity in the area.
Only a few members of the Munro DNA project who have Viking type male DNA like Haplogroup R1a (e.g. r-M512) as found in the MacDonald Lords of the Isles, or Haplogroup I (e.g. I-M253).
However in the general “autosomal” DNA there is a big mix which in the Highlands and Islands includes Nordic origins. This can be read about in the People of the British Isles study http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/nl6.pdf
Individual admixture can be tested with one of the autosomal DNA tests.
Also chck with Margaret Bardin at mbardin731@comcast.net
Hello Charles, my little blog goes nowhere near as deep as your very interesting looking book. I am just trying to find where we Munros came from. Maybe when I get to DNA, we might find something!!
If you click on Charles Monroe’s name, it will take you to his book “The Evolution of Genesis”
R.W. Munro, former historian of Clan Munro made this comment about the earliest ten chiefs, who cannot be authenticated by contemporary evidence and therefore there is some doubt as to their existence but their names have been handed down by tradition and thus merit a place in the list.
NOTE: I have researched the earliest sources, and none of the “Comments” (that try to give authenticity to these chiefs) can be verified in contemporary documents. The extant Charters of Alexander II, for instance, contain no such charter or reference to one. The old tower of Foulis does not date so early. Baron of Foulis does not date so early, either.
Name Died Comments
George Munro 1333 succeeded his grandfather – continued his support of Bruce – killed at Halidon Hill
George Munro – only son of Robert – predeceased his father – killed at Bannockburn 1314
Robert Munro 1323 joined the party of Bruce in his claim to the throne of Scotland
George Munro 1282 had all his Ross-shire lands confirmed to him by charter from Alexander II before 1249
Robert Munro 1239 married daughter of Earl of Sutherland
Donald Munro 1195 said to have built the old Tower of Foulis 1154. Assisted Wm the Lion in repressing rebellion
Robert Munro 1164 loyal subject of David I and Malcolm IV – Interred in Church of Chanonry of Ross – burial place of Munros for 400 years
Hugh Munro 1126 first member of the line “Baron of Foulis”
George Munro 1101 said to have assisted Malcolm III in contention with Macbeth for Crown of Scotland
Donald Munro 1039 founder of the ancient House of Munro
My mother is stuck at her 5th great grandfather Samuel Munro. We have Samuel between 1775-1849. He live in Bucks County PA. We would like to be able to go back to Scotland/Ireland with our Munro’s. This is our brick wall right now.
I would like a copy of Charles & Malcolm’s paper. My paper trail has a Barnabas b.1722 in Ireland as the Monroe that came to Orange County, NY. His father was born in Ireland around 1700. This is where I hit the wall in my research. I am in Group 21 in the Munro DNA Project awaiting further test results. My resulsts indicate I come from a 5th century Irish warlord Niall, “The same area of Ireland has previously been the subject of Anthropological writings…and has shown a strikingly high % of men from Haplogroup R-M269 (85.4%).” One point of curiosity I have is if my line of Monroe came and is rooted in Ireland, how would the Irish get a Scottish surname? Or, were the first Munros named before migrating from Ireland to Scotland? Nice blog by the way!
My various papers would not assist in your personal research. Most have been published in Clan Munro Magazine or the Munro Eagle (U.S.)
RE Niall: half of Ireland claims him as an ancestor.
Whether the name Munro was used before the Scots migrated from Ireland is unknown, but it is likely they did so before surnames were used.
It is pretty clear that the Scots did migrate to Alba (now Scotland) from northern Ireland.
Hello Mark
There was pretty free traffic between Western Scotland and Ireland in the period when the sea united rather than divided, and of course even the Foulis Munros trace their ancestral tradition there.
80% or so of Highlanders are also R-M269, usually the R-L21 Haplogroup, and Scots Munros are no exception. R-M269 arrived with the Bronze Age invaders from the Eurasian Steppe, largely displacing (euphemistically speaking) the Haplogroup I male line of the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, although the latter and the Early Neolithic farmers who followed them to the British Isles are still well represented in our autosomal DNA. A subclade of R-L21 is R-M222 which has a high prevalence in NW Ireland and is associated with Niall. Hoŵever the common ancestor of R-M222 lived ~4000 years back and his descendants are scattered throughout NW Europe. Niall may well have had lots of children, but being of the same Haplogroup and being descended from him are not necessary the same. There are Super-ancestors, but longer ago in most cases, though some in Asia lived quite recently.
You may get a better idea when you get additional results as R-M269 is so common that 12-marker matches may be coincidental; 67 is considered the minimum for confident assignment here. You will have thousands of matches currently so more STRs may give you a clearer answer, Monroe or not.